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    April 08

    Video shows G20 police push man to ground

           
     
    What’s happening?
     
    An investigation into the death of a man at last week’s G20 protests has been launched by the City of London police, whose own officers were involved. Video footage published in today’s Guardian shows 47-year-old Ian Tomlinson being pushed to the ground from behind by a police officer moments before suffering a fatal heart attack. Tomlinson, a newspaper seller, was on his way home from work and had not been involved in the protests.

     
    What are people saying?
     
    In an official statement on the night of Tomlinson’s death, the Metropolitan police made no reference to any contact with officers. Today, Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Paul Stephenson said: “The images that have now been released raise obvious concerns and it is absolutely right and proper that there is a full investigation into this matter, which the Met will fully support.” The Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC), which examines serious incidents and allegations of misconduct, is overseeing the investigation, but has not yet launched its own inquiry.

     
    Why should we give a damn?

    Police investigations into fatal incidents came under scrutiny after the death of Jean Charles de Menezes, shot by officers in 2005. An IPCC inquiry revealed serious failings in the Met’s handling of critical information. Did the police learn anything from de Menezes? No, says Guardian columnist Duncan Campbell, who suggests their tactics for dealing with demonstrations are "dangerously wrong." Lawyers are now calling for a criminal investigation into Tomlinson’s death. “If there are allegations that the death was caused or contributed to by unlawful actions of the police, then a police investigation would not be satisfactory,” Harriet Wistrich of Birnberg Peirce, the solicitors who represented the family of de Menezes, told The Guardian. “The IPCC should clearly run its own independent investigation which could lead to a referral of the case to the Crown Prosecution Service to decide whether to bring a criminal prosecution against the officers. If there is evidence of an assault, even if there is evidence to suggest there was a lawful defence to the assault, then it has got to be referred to the CPS.”
     
    Your thoughts?

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    This footage just confirms what we all already knew,bullys!
    May 3
    Larrywrote:
    The way the police handled the whole situation was wrong as squads of police under the control of a sergeant were allowed to roam throughout the demo lashing out at people who by the way have the legal right to protest and just because the officers did not like what the people were saying the lashed out in a barbaric way. Why did officer remove or covered their collar numbers?. To me that shows that they were out to damage to the protesters and get away with it. If I had carried out these act wilst being a soldier in the early seventys in Norther Ireland I would have been charge with assault and with the photo evidence available I would have been convicted. The police officer that are under investigation alloweed to retire on go on the sick to try and avoid any punishment there is no other place in society that I know this goes on. Watching how some of the officers behaved, it was clear for all to see the thought the were made of tevlon lets see how many are sacked or disiplined. I will not hold my breath.
    Apr. 27
    The police and especially the Metropolitan Police Service are out of control. Government laws have allowed them to do what they like. Paul Stephenson as a choice of commissioner was a political choice and the wrong choie he was Ian Blair's left hand man and since taking office things have got much worse under his leadership I haven't noticed any difference between him and Ian Blair.

    First the Damien Green incident, then the terrorist arrests incidents in the north west then the various police assaults and manslaughter of that poor man. The police are abusing their powers they have been able to do so because the government has politicialised the nature of policing to enforce government will and legislation. The MPS needs a new commissioner one that isn't accountable to the Home Secretary but the people of London. The terrorist aspect should be a specialist police force accountable to the Home Secretary. I think there are grounds to charge at least 5 officers with assault the police are there so serve and protect the public not enforce the long arm of a stasi state - perhaps serving police officers should remember that

    People and protesters will now be out to watch the police and record evidence of assault by them

    I think the police should not be proud that in a so called mature democracy people protest in the streets of London about police brutality - third world countries yes but Britain - shame but then again some officers of the MPS and the police are just shameless - thugs who think the law doesn't apply to them because they wear a uniform - there should be no such place for such people in any police force
    Apr. 24
    Joewrote:
    Sadly I am forced also to agree with Helene Harlow 2 comments down.... and its just that kind of corruption and whitewashing by top brass and government that gives all "good officers" (and yes michael, hard as it is for you to understand we DO exist) a bad name.
    When the system is corrupt, it is easy to believe that all its servants are too, if you nailed the wrongdoers, then the rest of us could do our job without constant worry that we are seen in the wrong light.
    One officer was an idiot that day.... how many others did their job with no incident?
    Apr. 23
    Joewrote:
    Well after 2 days of reading this, I am still amazed, Seems "michael" is on a one man crusade here.
    Well i at least respect you for commitment and perserverance, even if that commitment is of a bigotted misinformed and judgemental nature.
    Did you "hit a nerve" michael? well i suppose that depends on your definition of nerve.
    If you mean did your comments offend me? then yes you did.
    If you mean that I am going to be drawn into a mindless flame war and justify your opinion that all officers are brainless scum, then no, sorry to dissappoint you.
    You wage a troll war against ALL officers as if we were one large ant hive, with no individual thoughts or opinions or discretion. Frankly this undermines your argument better than i ever could as it proves to everyone here that this is not an argument, or a discussion, it is simply a tirade by a man unwilling to listen to anyone opinions other than there own.
    And also the sheer number of posts you have made reeks strongly of fanatisism, and that also undermines your position.
    Rather than post, wait a day or 2, mull over others opinions and then post a rebuttal, you simply furiously post after every single person who disagrees with, using sarcasm, vitriol, insults, unfounded and baseless opinions, and words such as "scum" "brainless" "incompetent"
    I will not do this. I respect your right to an opinion.
    Let me start with what I agree with you on, because unlike you, i am able to change stances based on what i read.
    I DO agree that we have a criminal justice system in this country that is beyond a joke, as you so rightly say.
    An far from perfect CPS that as I can attest to personally make grave errors, (but so do people in all work)
    Secondly, and heres the crux of it, I DO NOT AGREE WITH THIS OFFICERS ACTIONS AND IF HE IS GUILTY THEN HE SHOULD PAY AND PAY DEARLY! , and here is where your argument needs adjustment, if you were sayinbg that there were corrupt and brainless officers in the force then i could have no case to argue with you, cos you are right, 100% right ofc you are, there is no arguing this point.
    Where you fall down is in your assertion that ALL of us are like this, do I come across as brainless? well thats a stupid question, because i know full well what your response will be, its predictable, and its unfortunate.
    Ofc i COULD be proved wrong,. and you may choose to alter your image of if not the whole police, then at least me, who is going out of my way to engage you in intelligent conversation on a controversial subject.
    Sadly I doubt it, but you may consider this a hand offered, not as a next step in a flame war, but to perhaps alter an opinion of someone who clearly has a terrible opinion of us (for what reason i don not know, i know nothing about you).
    At the very least I would hope you could read this (if you did read it all) and do me the courtesy of a response that did not insult my intelligence, parentage, or call me scum.
    I would even be happy to tell you about programs the police run to combat just this kind of misinformation about us, although i fear you would simply see this as some sort of government propaganda designed to brainwash you.
    Anyway, do not take this as an attack on you, it is not, it is a measured response, lets see what happens.
    Hand extended.
    Apr. 23
    Well, it's 'game on', third time lucky as they say, or just keep going until you get the result you want and then call it official.
    Either way I'm willing to bet the final post mortem result will prove to be inconclusive, and of course the Met will not release the results until after a suitable period of time has elapsed during which buckets full of sludge and fudge will have been emptied into the waters, and with a bit of luck and good fortune, a disaster or world event will divert public attention away. There is no better friend to official wrong-doers than collective amnesia.
    Apr. 21
    The film footage is undeniable,independent statements must be heard. The POLICE have gone to far they are supposed to help set an example to us. They are after al paid out our taxes so they are our servants (not our masters).Justice has got to be seen to be done.The death of Mr Tomlinson. ....... ALAN
    Apr. 21
    joyce boydwrote:
    Final note what did the police pathologist find? Mr Tomlinson died of a heart attack. However what did an independant pathologist find. He died from internal bleeding from the stomach. I rest my case.
    Apr. 19
    joyce boydwrote:
    i agree stuart this thread has run its course. I think your opinion of the police will always be how your dealings with them have been. I have a number of incidents which has left me with little or no respect for the majority. Add to this the countless times they have actually killed people(by mistake) they would have us believe and then got away with it. The number of criminal offences some of which are serious ,serving police officers have commited and are still allowed to police our streets. This has made me have the opinion I have of them. I agree totally with the gusto they put into revenue crime. Our local council in denbigh actually budgeted this year for the revenue in council services.
    Apr. 19
    The police arte scum,especially r division.I hope some of you are reading!,although i`ll probably get another back of the van/or in the cell beating for saying it,but i dont care,you`ll just be proving my point
    Apr. 19
    i think this has just about run its course,but just thought i`d add,anyone notice how police are so good at chasing up crime that brings in revenue like car tax evasion,parking & speeding fines etc,but cant find the stolen contents from when your house was broken into?,even when you`ve done the detective work for them,& found out who done it,& where the property is! Then when you dish out rough justce to the house breaking scum,(because they cant do there job & do it for you like their supposed to),their quite happy to arrest you!
    Apr. 19
    joyce boydwrote:
    I am sorry didn't see the the one below this one. I feel for you but as I said to you before I worked in a very large primary one of the biggest in the country. I can honestly say I have never seen a child physically abused and I would never stand by and let a child be so. We had a very good pta, home school agreement etc and I think we did have a very happy school. Yes I will admit sometimes a teacher may shout at a child to go away or sit down but I have never and God is my Judge, witnessed a teacher strik or hurt a child.
    Apr. 18
    joyce boydwrote:
    I did ask did the teacher get reprimanded? did he or she lose their job
    Apr. 18
    joyce boydwrote:
    Noname you must have known a very bad school. I fortunately worked in a school that had very good policies in place to deal with any form of bullying whether by teachers pupils or parents. Of course I worked only with primary children. One thing I will say if a teacher was to assualt anybody they would lose their positions and would not be allowed to work with children again. I think you would accept this is not the position were the police are concerned. Yes there are good and bad police I am sure of that. However I have not seen much of the good variety over the years I have been on this earth. In my humble opinion the police are getting worse. I believe this is because they never have to account for their behaviour. They shoot someone because they had a table leg in their hands and they get away with that. They barge into a flat in hastings and shoot a man lying in bed and they get away with that. Even when the evidence is over whelming somehow they seem to get away with it also. The Hillsborough disaster caused by the complete incompetence of an commanding officer. He lies about incidents that never took place. Then many years later admits that he lies: what happened to him? Nothing. No one ever says sorry, and no one is ever made accountable for actions or behaviour. I am sorry if your child was at the receiving end of a teacher acting in an unprofessional way. Was this teacher disciplined in any way ? I was also a school Governor for 15 years. During that time we had one police offer invited to join our body. She did and lasted six months, whih equates to two meetings when she resigned. The reason? She didn't get paid. My husband I where coming home one day driving a brand new calibra car (my husband is in a wheelchair). A patrol car passed us going the other way, they then turned their car around and followed us home. The reason they gave when they asked to see my husbands documents they didn't think a disabld man woud drive this sought of car. They then made him take his documents to the police station even though they had just checked them. I could go on and on about police officers who I have had dealings with over the years. 95% of officers I have met with have real communication problems. I have always been made to feel as if I am a criminal and I do resent that.
    Apr. 17
    joyce boydwrote:
    comparing our police with that of say China is ridiculous. Its like comparing our countries poverty with that of say India. You just cannot do it. Everything is realtive to the society you live in. We ( media etc) are forever saying we have the best justice system in the world and this is just not so. Just take a look at programmes such as Rough Justice. Media reports of high ranking officers not prosecuted because it is not in the public interest. Reports that serving officers have criminal records including firearm offences, forgery, dishonesty, assualts and so on. Our Police are no better or worse than any other country. The only difference I can see is that police in other countries are more open about the thuggery and corruptness that takes place
    Apr. 17
    For all of you sticking up for the police & saying "their worse in other contries",it doesnt change the fact that they still break the very laws their supposed to uphold,and get away with it coz there corrupt mates & bosses back up their lies & let them get away with it.
    Apr. 17

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