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    March 17

    Higher tuition fees: pricing students out of education?

     
    (Image © PA)
     
    What’s happening?
     
    Many universities in England and Wales want to raise tuition fees from their current capped level of £3,500 to as much as £20,000 per year to help cover costs – a move that could prompt students, particularly those from low-income backgrounds, to abandon higher education in droves, according to new research.
     
    What are people saying?
     
    In one study, more than 50% of university heads, speaking anonymously, told the BBC they want students to pay at least £5,000 a year, or for there to be no upper limit on fees. A separate report commissioned by Universities UK said students would begin to turn their backs on higher education if annual fees were raised to £7,000, but wouldn’t react if they were raised to £5,000. The National Union of Students (NUS) warned annual fees of £7,000 would saddle graduates in 2016 with debts of £32,000 – more than double the average total debt predicted by Universities UK for graduates in 2011.
     
    Why should we give a damn?
     
    In 1997, when Sir Ron Dearing’s landmark report into the future of education concluded students would have to help pay university costs, undergraduates took to the streets in 14 cities to protest that fees would deter young people from low-income families from going to university. Today’s findings have renewed the debate about how to maintain the nation’s higher education standards just five years after tuition fees sparked one of the biggest backbench rebellions faced by the Labour government. NUS president Wes Streeting told the BBC: "In the context of the current recession, it is extremely arrogant for university vice chancellors to be fantasising about charging their students even higher fees and plunging them into over £32,000 of debt." The Tories have dropped their opposition, but accuse the government – which has yet to comment – of delaying its review of the system. Backbench rebels, however, are already mobilising: MP Paul Farelly warned the government would ignore the risks “at its peril”.
     
    Your thoughts?
     
    P.S. Apologies for the prolonged absence. Went on annual leave, but forgot to tell you beforehand. Senior moment...

     

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    Janinewrote:
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    Apr. 24
    Sam Taylorwrote:
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    When asked where our money goes we are never given specifics because it all goes to the University and then filtered down to the individual courses. Although we have access to a brilliant photographic facility which obviously costs a lot of money to maintain, the sheer number of students using it doesn't explain away where all of our money goes. Also, what with currently 3-4hours schdueled time every fortnight I really don't think my money is being well spent.

    Although these courses with hidden costs are currently being looked at by NUS(no help to me!), I can quite easily see art based courses slowly dying out if fees are raised. What with cost of materials and the lecture time received, doing a course such as mine wouldn't make financial sense to anyone!

    In retrospect based on my experiences of my course I would not pay anymore than what I currently am. I would get a similar experience without the costs by going straight into a working environment.
    Apr. 16
    I am in my final year at university and absolutely love my course, however if I was asked to pay more money for this, I'm not sure I would, especially as I am sure my parent's would not be able to subsidise me. Already they give me money to live on each month however, I have two othe siblings they also have to support. After a recent chat with one of my lecturers, I found that the money actually doesn't really go them...in fact he said all the lecturers are on pay freezes (and no bonuses) whilst a number of university staff had been fired. But hang on, the Vice President pays themself £190,000 and gave themself a payrise AND a bonus this year..... I really don't understand why they deserve two rewards for what they do...it isn't them that sit with students and help them through assignments and dissertations, nor do enormous amounts of research to help the university earn more money and credibility. From what I have heard it's not our lecturers that are getting the money that is going to be funding our education, it's the greedy people at the top...... oh, who are also the anonymous university heads!! It's a disgrace. The quailty of the student's education whilst at university isn't going to be increasing by thousands of pounds worth, so why should they pay it!?
    Apr. 15
    Rory McKeownwrote:
    Thing is, we students are paying enough as it is to get into university. In my university we are in 5 days a week, sometimes for only an hour, other times for about 4 hours with a 3-hour break in the middle. This means I can't get a proper job to pay me through it (weekends are NOT enough hours to pay me through, not on this joke wage they call the 'development' wage, which is another farce, paid less to do the same job just because you are younger!). If you move away into halls, you pay for that and if you live at home you pay ridiculous amounts to travel on unreliable buses. Then you have to shell out for all the textbooks, all the equipment you'll need etc... Aren't we paying enough?

    After all this money that you haven't actually got in spent on getting there, you'd think you'd be well cared for. Always have the right equipment available to you. I'm doing Computer Science at a very highly thought-of university, and some days I can't get into any labs to do the ridiculous amount of coursework (all of which was set at once, of course!), and even though there are plenty of free computers to use, the lecturer whose group is running the lab telling us to go away...it's as if the fact we're paying through the nose to pay their wages means nothing to them! Over 3k plus expenses is too much to pay for that, let alone 7k!

    Typical short-sightedness of society though...live for now. Who cares what happens to everyone in the future. After all, in the future we won't need teachers, researchers (or any university-educated job roles, for that matter!), just like we don't need the sun, the ozone layer, trees or the sea! The fact of the matter is young people are given less less respect and importance, yet they are shocked when they bite back...these miscreants going around throwing rocks at things, or kicking a football around in a residential area causing a nuicance. Where do you expect them to go, what do you expect them to do? When I was a kid the council gutted the park. It's just a hole in the ground now...really fun for kids that is!
    Apr. 13
    go to university in Scotland! we don't have any of this rubbish about tutition fees and lecturers not caring about students.
    Apr. 13
    No namewrote:
    Hils, I did a HND (in graphic design)too and it was great value, i don't know how much they are charging with top-up fees but from what i've heard its not much more than before not even £3grand like a degree. we would be in all day every day, small classes with loads of support and practical hands-on help from dedicated tutors. after my HND i went to 'top-up' at uni for two years. I took a gap year to do some work experience and had to go on the new system with top-up fees. So for twice as much the classes were enormous and tutors didn't even know their students. didn't learn anything of any use and everytime i tried to leave the tutors would talk you into it. they weren't tutors, they were bloody salesmen i swear!! i wish i hadn't bothered for all the extra debt, i like also how HND tell you really you only need to do a final year at uni to top-up but the uni's make you start in the 2nd year, so you can "get used to it" utter rubbish they just want an extra years cash!!
    HND graphics at newcastle-under-lyme college, staffordshire is a great value fantastic course with talented tutors, well more than tutors they're mentors!
    BA(hons) graphic design at UCA Epsom. Poor poor poor. You are just a number there to make money, rubbish course full stop!

    They should compile lists of good value courses with how much time you get with a tutor and how much support they give class sizes etc, then the uni's would seriously have to buck up their ideas and actually provide something for the money, an hour a week is not education!

    Saying that like i said previously we need to discourage uni as a solution for everyone, it isn't. A HND is enough for something like design as it is more practical, but you're drilled into doing a degree so much that you do, i'm older now and know better and wish i hadn't gone to uni
    Apr. 9
    Antoniowrote:
    4/7/09 Antonio was here
    Apr. 7
    Hilswrote:
    It always amazes me how traditional university lectures work - though I was in further education (and paying back the debt to prove it) I completed a HND course at a specialist university college. A 'lecture' for us would be 3 hours, either 9.30-12.30 or 13.30-16.30. only the occasional one would be shorter (eg 1 1/2 hrs). Frequently we booked the facilities for practical work/practise after so could be there until 19.00. In the first year we were in approx 4 full + 1 half day a week (reducing in the second yr).

    At least the travel costs & effort involved appeared worth it. travelling x miles for one 1hr lecture seems rather pointless. we got plenty of education for our money at least!

    I wont lie, I relied on my overdraft something chronic - but I was at uni in London. I worked out I needed an income of a full time minimum wage job to survive.
    Apr. 2
    gemmawrote:
    £5-7000 a year??? You must be joking! I luckily went to University just in time before the top up fees started but had to use my gap year before hand to save up in the first place! I spent the entire three years being poor and very worried about money, and I didn't spend silly money and I worked part time. Frankly my degree felt like a waste of time and isn't worth the paper it was printed on. I was only doing 6 hours a week of lectures, most of which were also based on material that was neither engaging nor useful. The whole three years could have been condensed into 18 months and now I living abroad and I am working in a job that has nothing to do with my degree anyway! Go to Sweden! University there is free! Gemma (Loughborough Univeristy graduate 2008)
    Mar. 31
    ICAN NOT BELIEVE THE "LABOUR" (LOL) Party are even considering allowing uni's to charge what they want in education fees. It seems we can pour billions into rescuing banks the city and pay ceo's hundreds of thousands of pounds per anunm in pensions and yet expect our kids to pay for thier own education.
    Mar. 31
    Adamwrote:
    Just reading further down and came across some people claiming that their children never went overdawn at uni. I personally have never gone overdrawn, I have a car, go out weekly and have a healthy social life. I drink in moderation and eat healthily. I don't get handouts from my family and come from what is considered a lower middle class background in my area (South West England). The problem with most students is that they don't have a clue how to budget and that is the simple truth. Maybe if schools actually showed kids how to spend money wisely and taught them about banking and funds then they would not be in the trouble they are in now. Half the students these days should not even be at university anyway. The government has simply told students to go into the universities so that the levels of unemployment appear to be lower than they actually are.

    The problem I found was that when I got to university there was a level of snobbiness where many students and some lecturers seemed to look down on me simply because of my accent. I agree with some of the students who have posted on here that often the lecturers seem to just be there to take money off of you, and don't actually care about the students. Basically at uni your views and ideas don't count as most lecturers are so far up themselves they think they are gods and that what they say is the one and only truth. If you are a free thinking individual then seriously re-think going to university!
    Mar. 31
    Adamwrote:
    Seriously if fees are increased then nobody from a poorer background will go to uni. I am a second year history student and I only have 3 hours of lectures and 4 hours of seminars a week. I think I already pay more than I should. My advice to anybody thinking of going to uni would be to take a gap year and work through it so that you have money when you get there. Thats what I did and I am not struggling as badly as most of my friends who came from college.
    Mar. 31
    No namewrote:
    I was pleased to read Leigh Bagnall's comments about debt, my son has a very active social life, but he keeps everything in moderation. With regards to other, snobbish, comments regarding benefit claimants- I worked for 25 years in the NHS prior to my illness, so don't generalise. To the person below- my son wants to be an economist and my daughter a SEN teacher.
    Mar. 31
    No namewrote:
    From the inability shown by many of your correspondents to express their opinions in correct English, I am astonished that they were able to gain admission to a university in the first place. As far as university courses are concerned, Britain needs mathematicians, physicists, chemists, engineers, biologists, historians, linguists, geologists, possibly even economists. It can get by without beach management, film studies, travel and tourism and an enormous list of non academic and non mind developing degrees. Tuition fees for good quality and worthwhile academically challenging university courses should be free, but others must pay the full economic price.
    Mar. 31
    chazwrote:
    I'm a 2nd year MMaths student at Sheffield university with another two years to go. Mum is a single parent and sturggles to support her house and 2 daughters on 11k a year. Im projected to leave university with £24k of debt minus interest. Looking at the loan statement, im racking up £100 a month interest before im even paying it back so its gonna hike the debt up some more.

    I cant say that i dont get 'value for money'. I have 18 hours of lectures a week, personal tutor to help with problems and free access to books/library etc. Yes you have to pay for printing, photocopying, but you'd do that anywhere and it really doesnt bother me. I messed up my exams last semester due to family problems and overwork, and my department bent over backwards for me to get a second chance which luckily they provided.

    I worked 4 jobs to pay for university. The loan was £6k a year, out of which comes just over 4k for rent. So i'm left with £1800 a year (or £34.61 a week) to pay for bills, food, laundry, books, travel etc. I guess i could do this, except that rent gets taken out in unequal instalments which means i had £20 a week to live on from september to january - a feat which im sorry is just not possible. So i worked (and got taxed 20% on everything) to get by, which meant less time to study, and ultimately i messed up my exams.

    The uni has now funded me to quit work and concentrate on my studies but i know a lot of people in the same situation as me who wern't so lucky.

    I can honestly say that since im scraping by now, i could never afford to pay if they hiked up fees. I feel i deserve a chance at getting a degree (especially since you need one to become a teacher) and i don't see why its ok to price people out of that chance? I understand that universities need to get the money from somewhere, but there must be another way? I'm worried that my sister wont get this chance that im lucky enough to have because her fees will be double mine!
    Mar. 31
    Ms gibsonwrote:
    Two daughters got an excellent degree but to what avail when the Oxford hons deg student ended up serving people part time in a deli as the only job she could find after her degree having applied literally to 1000s of employers- she is not earning enough to pay back her student loan currently- the other daughter did an arts degree and cannot find employment other than the odd illustration now and again- and her debts mount. I'm a pensioner, single parent now and cannot help out other than to house them if they can no longer pay their rent and bills for short term until such a time as credit crunch provides jobs again.
    Why bother going to university at all I ask? It might have been three years of fun, but the fun ends when you cannot find work of any kind or support yourself and you have a heavy loan debt behind you. Similar friend who attended same school, got less good A levels dropped out of lesser university within first weeks- and took a job- now has a pensionable career and is earning over £30,000 a year! He has married and got his first flat to live in in the last two years and not a penny in debt! My case rests- will either of my daughters ever find a career that pays them enough to live on let alone pay back the student debts? but will either find a happy marriage and a home of their own and be able to have children whilst they are young enough to have fun with them? The unemployment figures will rise if there are no students and universities will close- ridiculous fees must be abandonned if the system expects to receive students in large numbers in future. be realistic please- debt creates pain and misery and a bad feeling- destroys family life and leaves people isolated. University will soon become a thing for the rich parents like private schools and public schools and quite out of reach for the rest of the population. Perhaps there needs to be a scholarship setup for fees for the bright clever children who cannot afford this kind of debt and come from single parent families without high earnings or even two parent families who cannot help them in the current climate.
    Mar. 30